Insider contributor, Dr. Tim McNamara, discusses how to manage your Accounting during COVID-19 with guest Morgan Hamon.
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Insider contributor, Dr. Tim McNamara, discusses how to manage your Accounting during COVID-19 with guest Morgan Hamon.
Subscribe to Dental Insider to stay informed.
Hello. Well, if you're watching this, my name is Dr Tim McNamara. I am a dentist, just like you. Which means I'm going through all the craziness that you're going through today. I've invited in my good friend, Morgan Hammond, and he's from HD A counting. He's a c p a. Among many other cool things that this man has done in his life. But, uh, I'm excited that you're here, so thank you for joining me, my man. My pleasure. So this is fascinating times, right? Like, unprecedented in. And we're gonna want you to give a little a little bit about your background and why you're qualified to be talking about what we're talking about today. Which is gonna be a dentist CEO, business owner. How can you preserve cash flow? How can you come out of this ahead? So, sure you are. And why you're qualified to speak?
Sure. Yeah. I'm ah, president and co founder of HD Accounting Group. We've been supporting privately on dental practices for less 10 years. I would support about 450 private practices in just about every state. It were really a niche from, um it's all owner operated practices were real hands on. You do financial, accounting, business advising and tax. I mean those three things. That's what we stick to. And so, yes, last last Monday, the switchboard lit up. If you can manage on, we've been going. I got full blast ever since.
Yeah, well, it's fascinating now, So I I interact with a lot of dentists and, you know, based on my background, which was consulting Fortune 500 companies before it became a dentist. It's really interesting, because when I see dips like this, you know, and now setting aside, obviously the cabbie out of of the health scare and all of that, I'm just only talking about business. When I see dips like this, I see opportunity now the dentist that I have been interacting with, and I would say probably the majority of dentists. Man, this is pure panic. Right now. I can imagine that any good business CEO, he's going to try to get all the data in that they can, which is the best place to start out to you. And maybe they reached out to a nay char resource. So when we kind of let's say, there's viewers here who still don't quite have a handle on what cash flow means, what the next step should be to come out of this thriving. So let's start there to establish our baseline. I'm a dentist. I haven't spoke to my accountant. My c p a. I know everything is crazy. I know that there's bills that may be past that are gonna help small business. They may not ask. My h r you know, Advisor has told me to either lay off my team or hold off on laying off for for Look, I understand all of that, But what I really, really want to know right now is what is my cash looking like? How can I get a handle on that? Walk me through what I need to know.
So in terms of cat like to start with just the cash reserve and that's one of the things we talk about with our clients, Like all the time, it's anarchy performance indicators like top left page one. What? You're in a minimum under normal times, which for us being two weeks ago if that Waas like what we would recommend for a minimum cash reserve is one times break even. And the way we quantify break even is total operating expenses plus debt service. Okay, before any money goes to Horn and so we recommend a minimum of one times. Personally, I'm more of a 2 to 1 kind of person. We have clients. There were no one, and we have some that running on the razor edge. So if we started with one times break even obviously, uh, we want just we want to have more than that. If we're looking at a, uh, shut down with this in determined. So how do we how do we stretch that cash reserve? And it was, we'll be put out very quickly. Waas come seven steps to make a very impactful difference. To multiply that cash reserve by Delia Factor between two and four for your
fantastic. So I'm a white guy. You know that about me. So we're gonna detail this out of anyone that's watching this can walk away with this just action. Pure action out of this. So one thing you said, I understood what you said, but I want to make sure the end user the in view of your understood what you said. You said one times operating expense. Correct.
Cried as a minimum.
Yeah. So now we're gonna break that down. So everyone understands what our goal is. So here we're gonna put gold, and this is minimum boat. As you just call it out, I'm gonna go. So one time operating expense in order to do that more it. Can you tell me how you define operating expense? But we're just gonna go through and identify this cash.
Very basically it is. And I'll use a little accounting. Speak here, but your ordinary and necessary operating business expenses. So dental supplies, lab. These Ortho implants supplies non doctor staff costs, uh, overhead slash rants. Your marketing. Paying the associate. That's what we include. An operating expense.
Okay. On her labor there.
Yes, the big one.
Like all the rest of ordinary, Because essentially what? I want everyone to walk away from his operating me. What does it take to keep the business operate? Never. Only when you hear the term in the business world operating expense it's the twins is to keep the business operated. Well, a lot of expenses right there.
There is a way left one out, and it's very important because you will not find this on your p N. L. And that is when you when you pay your practice loan, which most everybody has. Ah, portion as interest in that fits into the ordinary bullet when you have. But a large chunk falls into what I call that serves principle. All right, So when we look at break even, I include that principal amount in there. A significant. Okay, you will not find that on your PML.
That's fantastic, Bill. So that service, I'm adding years operating expenses plus that service and we're just gonna put and I know I'm getting sloppy here. You guys, I'll take a picture of my white were later. We're just gonna go minus interest, which is already included in our ordinary here. So hopefully everyone followed that we've identified now what operating expenses? There's another other categories of expenses for this purpose. Morgan is saying I'm being the dentist. The dentist right now, Morgan is saying, is essentially what does our cash need to look like in the bank? And it means it needs to cover our debt service, plus our ordinary expense to the ordinary business expenses to keep the business running, I said ordinary men operating that operating expenses to keep the business running. And when he says one time, I am assuming you're talking about one month,
one month. So if a practice break even is what we call a break even is 50,000 I would recommend never go below 50 k and offering
Great. Okay, so should we. Let's take just a quick second toe break down. What break even is now. I don't know how many people watching this know this, but let's make sure that, you know, because that's we're headed. We're headed here for gold and walk away from it, right? Even I'm just calling be. So walk me through what you want. What you want the equation to be
great. So break even. Is the operating expenses. We just talked about the yep and plus debt service. Another way to think about breaking event. And what is your cash requirement Before there's any money available to the owner, we get paid last.
That's actually that's a fantastic way to say Yeah, and I want to do another webinar with you under less stressful circumstances about normalizing PM l's and how people are putting their their their own payment into their, You know, their operating expenses. Now they're messing with their evening, but we'll chat on that later. That's a fascinating woman for me to go now, guys and girls, what I hope you've taken away from this is OK. He mentioned one turn on operating expense. Plus, that serves you mentioned. Break even. You should understand what that means. Okay, now we're moving forward. Let's go through. Um we just erase this. We're gonna start over. Let's go through. You mentioned +77 ways to increase your cash, right? You hit that. Go. I'm gonna leave that go up there to hit that operating expense. Plus already. Plus, that serves. How do we get to this minimum? And hopefully it's more than that would say. We'll put all the way before X. There you go. That's what we want. Our cash reserves. If weren't for X, we should not be feeling so stressed right now about the Corona scare or any sort of downturn in our business. If we're wrong, we just need to make sure that we're talking about we're paying attention. Look closer. Right. Okay,
So we're gonna talk about some ways, too. Keep more money in the operating account and then an opportunity to maybe put actually put some money into the account. So the first, the first action item pertains to owners of s corporations, which is gonna be most every single honor operated successful dental practice. Okay, And here did you have to understand? And I'll just do a quick recap of why Why that s corporation makes sense and what that does for you. And it allows us to take the annual profit and take a reasonable salary home. And we ve apparel taxes on that result salary. And then the rest of the profit comes home via draw or distribution. Or however you want whatever terminology want to use. You do not pay federal taxes on those those draws right, so that reasonable salary if we're talking like, maybe there's 400,000 for the practice of reasonable sellers meeting at 1 30 p. Pear payroll taxes on that 1 30 You know that tax grabs you right there. Say it saves a lot of money so often with that owner as a corpse, salary will use that as a vehicle to do income tax withholding right and spread that pain out through the year. Also, we don't have big checks to write all the time. Now, in the middle of this crisis, there is no reason tohave that s corporal. They will go in because it's gonna drain your account from those that withholding tax. And it's also your payroll taxes on which is 15.3% not included in state unemployment. That's a massive amount of cash we can just cut off. Let's just keep it in. The operating account was keep it there for now. Later in the year. We know when the dust settles a little bit, we can always re assess with that owner that the reasonable owner salary is plenty of time left in here. To do that, we can also get count caught up on hold. So for right now we're recommending you have another score and you have on her salary turn that off today.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm gonna put this in a bullet point. I was going to start down, defer your tax payments, But maybe it is too for your salary and then also differ. You're
like turning off the escort owner salary. It's going to? Yeah, it is gonna defer the withholding income tax withholding, but it's also going thio keep the payroll taxes that would otherwise be paid in your bank account.
Yeah, and so a road tax plus withholding. Yeah. So you're number one. Maybe this is a no brainer, but this is the reason. And c p a reason as to why you need to do this. And it's critical does for the salary to yourself because you're trying to also
differ. Exactly. And we're gonna turn it on back on in a couple months. Okay, But for now, we'll just sleep better. And I have that money now. The following questions, Eminence. How how do we then? Their bills at home? The answer Simple. Take a drop. Okay. That's not gonna compact taxes. It's an owner. Discretion. Obviously, everybody's being very judicious with their draws, but just take homes is, you know, a reasonable draught to meet your household needs.
Okay. Okay. I think that's very clear and really smart foundational stuff did not make silly little miss six in a downturn in the business in the economy. Right? So keep walking me through a brother. Let's
go. Number two the 2019 taxes. Okay, if there is a small amount due or a very amount, hopefully it's small, but if it if there's an amount due for 2019 that is now due July 15 as opposed to April 15. So keep that. Keep that money.
Okay, this is good. Now do
July 15 rides three more months to hang on to that catch.
I got a quick question on this. Now it's deferred payments deferred or my taxes finally
have a filing deadline. Initially, the iris moved the payment deadline and kept the filing deadline. But then shortly thereafter, they extend to the final design Ms Walker,
some fire island and paying that are now in Mitchell. So, Cliff, because what we're doing here and you mentioned it, you articulated this great in the beginning. But what we're doing, you were just being smart about the money leaving the account. That's why we're keeping that captures their high for being which I know that if you're watching this, you're probably going to get to, you know, start to really pay attention to your subscription and your bills that you're paying. But I'm sure we want to make you talk about. So if you're ready, we can do
some number three. Ah, quarter 1 2020 Estimated payments. Typically do April 15 now due July 15. So do not make 1/4 1 estimated payment. You know, things were ruined very quickly. We had started our process of doing income forecasting and cue one, uh, estimated payment recommendations. And then all the sudden last Monday, it seems like this woman is really kind of came, came down. We turned it off instantly and said, You know what? It is impossible right now anyway, to estimate 2020 income. So just stop those payments. Hang on to that again. Plenty of time left. And so, like third and fourth quarter tax planning will be It's always critical, but be very critical this year for now. Don't Don't send any money to the government. Hang on to that.
Great. Fantastic. Okay, so this is great stuff here. July 15th. That's a good good Wait.
Wait to know. Um
Number four. You alluded to this in the last the last weapon, Or did I not just stop purchase of unnecessary stuff? You know, it's kind of a no brainer um, I just do what you can to preserve that cash, and it's part of that process. You know, every doctor, you have to decide what's essential and what's non essential. And I, you know, like you had said in your practice, probably not gonna turn off the collection process. Okay, maybe turn off the postcard drop or something. You know, you gotta decide what's essential, non essential, if anything's on auto reorder. Maybe.
Yeah, so this is fantastic. So here's how my brain carpet compartmentalizes this as as dentist CEO, I say that there's maintenance costs and there's management costs. And so when I look at my management expenses, expenses, those are things that I'm paying because the business is churning. Uh, you're spinning. There's maintenance stuff that being paid, no matter if the wheel is spinning or not. And now listen. I know this is a unique way to describe this. This is not C e. P. A. Approved Morgan, comfortable just listening may say it, but I'm telling you, this is how I look at it that just I like what I need to do. Maintain where I actually pay to manage so maintenance costs. I keep going. So what has made it cost in, my friend? Well, the phones are still ringing, so that means to maintain the business in the future. I need to keep someone activated on the phones for me. I outsource it. I'll write it for you. You may use to pay that particular person toe, answer the phones from home. Easy enough. Um, another maintenance costs for me, which, which it could fall out of this man inside. But in this in this crazy pandemic, this is a maintenance cough, which is my ale. So I'm continuing to collect money. Now. Insurance companies air longer. Hold times I have chosen is a business owner not to go after pe patient payment portions, but I'm maintaining that relationship. So that has now become the customer service component of a. So you're just gonna want to go through your your list and decide what is something that you use because you're actually the wheel spinning and you're managing the business. And what is expenses that you're maintaining the business with, And you're probably gonna find that the maintenance expenses that you clarify or qasab I will probably keep so, um said differently from from idiot. Dentist, you idiot. Dentist watching That is how we are talking about numbers. Now, the smart see bacon.
Uh, you know, uh, I took, like, the really long road to be in a c p. A. And I was a navy fighter pilot for about 11 years, so I e try and break it down to toe checklist. I just give it a simple get it simple follow. So I'm with you for sure. You
are the only a fighter pilot's last deviated that it's in the dental industry I'm sure
about. That's a small I get asked out of that. My God, you know it just well, everyone see my dad, my brother, all my cousins like energy And, I suppose
family rabbi. And it
was the rebel. Other other items in this next one. Number five, I will tell you. It could probably There's an argument for it against. Yeah, but it's the qualified retirement plans. Okay, uh, there's an argument to say. Hey, it is, um may be wise to invest in the markets down. I get that. But in my opinion, and anytime I'm talking with our clients on the timing of weather like a plan like that makes sense for the practice. You should never come at the expense of ah, comfortable cash reserve. And that's never more true than right now, So yeah. Yeah, he's And just this last week and 1/2 I have talked with I think a record number of dentists were extraordinarily is the extraordinarily high voice contact contact, which is awesome. That's what your four and I can tell you if and maybe we can talk about this at the end of Look, I'm very happy to share some perspective. I kind of want a hearing, but most people are shutting. This is shutting us down for now.
Yeah. Yeah, well, you said differently. It's really exciting to catch Arabia a buying opportunity in the stock market. What will worse is when you can't open your damn business because you ran out of cash. So perspective. There. Now you're sitting in for turns or four months. There you have a little bit leeway, but still we don't know what we don't know, right? By that, I mean, we don't know when the doors are gonna open back. We assume there will be a positive rebound, but we don't know. So I think this is brilliant advice. Make sure you're not using business money to fund your retirement today.
Right? Could always turn it back on in a multitude number six. Most banks are willing to defer. Not just interest only, but for the entire law. And so I have heard. Um, the majority of the doctors have pulled me a 90 day deferral. I heard 60 days and in one rare I only heard one. It's one of our clients in Southern California was told six months. Okay, uh, that's not if there's no free lunch, the interest will accrue. During that time. They'll tack it on principle. So at the end of your 10 year period, there may be another payment. No. Okay, but that is big, big money.
Absolutely. So there's debt service. So we're talking about up here. This is This is fantastic. And listen, I know I know my fellow dentists were worried about the interest payment, but now is not the time. Worry about that later. Yeah, Begin. Maybe that's basic foundational thinking, but but we just don't want to be saying this, uh, my add one to it, and I hope I'm not that you number seven. But what about landlord expense?
Is that so? Landlord e. I have not heard a lot of chatter or feedback on what's happening with the landlord. I think my feeling is most practice honors our plan on being there. Okay, Um, who knows? This is not to get off on too big of a tangent with the elephant. The room right now. Is this bill working its way through Congress? Maybe there's something in there that addresses right. You make It's worth a call. No. They're gonna have some pretty big carrying costs, too. And so if that can trickle down, they get some deferment from their bank. So then they cannot collect rent from you. Like me. There's a domino effect there. I've heard very little talk about rental for almost none.
Okay, well, here's Here's what I'm hopeful you'll agree with contact her landlord and just have open discussions. My flask in your business eyes, a lot of time to hide is a time to be over communicative. If you are less than one turn or at one turn, or even anxious about being a 10 turn, it doesn't matter. But you Kate. What's happening there? Obviously aware of it. This is not gonna go. Oh, there's a virus happening, right? They're gonna be
Oh, so I You know what? Wait approach. That might be too. Just to say, Look, cash reserves are running low. Can we work out a deferral? You know, maybe no free ride, but maybe, can we come in? Amer ties. But over a period of time, when when things get rolling again and get some of this release
Yeah, there's There's only one other person that's routing almost as hard as you are for your business to stay open. And that is your language.
The landlord of the bank's helpless way Want to me, They're good. You know, I sent out a message. My team that's more anxious, you know, we're working remote now, and and I've got a lot of nice comments back from our clients. I'm like, sharing those just to let them know, like I mean these air. These were people providing local jobs and employment. And, Your honor, we're just doing everything We can't help about it now, please. Very, very short term basis. We'll see how long this goat Yeah, everyone's rooting for our our doctors to succeed for sure.
Yeah. Very good. Well, this is wonderful. So, um, we're six. We've got one more.
Well, the last one was part of our checklist. This this is actually intended and maybe put some money into the business. And that is contact your insurance agent. You may have been business interruption insurance or some type of business overhead insurance. In your policy, you might not be aware. And so call and ask. Um, because business interruption insurance I mean this I If this doesn't qualify for business interruption, I don't know what does Global Global Pandemic.
Right? Right. Um, this is great. This is great. And, you know, the irony of ah, pilot hammering out a checklist here? I'm just understand. This is great, man. So very actual. This is exactly how my mind works as well. So anything. Anything else you want to add here is I'm gonna recap it. We're gonna have an opportunity. But here's the list. I have anyone watching this. We've got to start with, um are we escort? Which, if you're cps has set you up as the majority of dentists are set up, likely the answer is? Yes, we're there for I salary. Really? What we're trying to do is the for payroll tax and the old days We can take some draw to pay the bills. Anything you wanna add on that point Because I'm gonna take a picture and send this out to them.
Now, that's Ah, that's a big, big ticket items.
Okay, that's great. Remember, two, we've got 2019 taxes there now, due July 15. So that is for filing, and that is for pain. So that's fantastic. And then we've got to one estimate payment. We can't defer that,
uh, hang on to that money.
Perfect. We got cash controls, which I think that in terms of maintenance, first of management expenses could be classified as operating expenses or critical expenses. Point being is whether there is a pandemic or not. This right here should be part of your monthly routine. And am I using it? Am I not using it in my pain too much by not paying too much? Um, and U. S number four is a great place to keep some money in the bank account Number five posts on the retirement money said maybe differently. is. Don't be using business safety money to be putting it into the stock market at this point. Seems like it should be a no brainer, but we might be doing silly things while we're at home bored and not busy in the business. Uh, number six. We have bank deferment. Reach out to your bank, see if you can defer that loan payment. I feel very, very, very confident that they will do that from your interactions. You're hearing the exact same.
Yeah, get some perps perspective. Um, I have only heard from two doctors where the banks have said let us call you back. And then they didn't call back and said my recommendation was well called him because every all its use, like a small bank or something. And maybe they just work flow. Er not that that the sixties and 90 day before lt's been pretty standard across the board.
I would think so and then sew. Everything we have here is basically hold on to your caps. One through six. Just be cognisant how you're spending that cash. Number seven is business insurance. Check and see if you have any sort of business interruption insurance this is This is a fantastic list. Now I'm gonna say something to you. All right? I've done this. I followed it. I don't have enough that to make me feel comfortable, whether that's less than one or re and I just want more because I think this thing's gonna go for two years. I don't It doesn't matter. Just my anxieties business are Where do you think I go to get cash?
So we have a lot of clients are are preparing lines of credit, right? Other loans. And then the big one that again we're waiting a little bit with the bill through Congress. But the SP a disaster relief. I have to be into sp A like a disaster area. But there are that the government is working to make a lots of capital available. Thank you. Our business is going right. And so that is we're talking big numbers. Is working through Congress that that is to be determined right now. Like we are preparing a lots of financial statements for loan applications right now. Just lines of credit. It doesn't mean they're gonna tap it. They just wanna have it just Oh, sleep better tonight as we navigate this crisis,
right? I think that's brilliant, Because why not get prepared? I'd rather be first in line. Should the bill passed, I'd rather be first in line. You got it. Chris is last in line. So some action items here for you. Fellow dentist business owners. Oh, this is, uh this is this is a very handy handy list, and none of this is. Well, I guess most of this is critical to today. Some of this is just common practice of being a great CEO. And And since we're a dentist, we also wear a CFO hat. Uh oh. This is just CFO task work, But, um well, this is good. So I don't want to end this yet. I wanna keep talking. I want to know. How do you mean? What do you What our dentist feeling is you're talking to them. Are they? Are they feeling the crunch if I'm below one of my average right now are my my, my below average talk to me about
so 1122 times a screwball. Okay, um, if I see less less than one times break even for a cash reserve, that's more unusual. I always recommend, you know, Let's build that up, Tim. I did a, uh, just kind of analysis a few days ago, and I just took a $1,000,000 practice standard 35% margin, 65% overhead, Just kind of evil, Doctor. All right, great practice. Um, and with one month over, one month break even, which for just like that's gonna be around 55. 60,000. Okay, um, if they scaled back significantly, All right toe where they're just saying of some emergency cases periodically. So pretty like cities like 70 to 80% drop off. Okay, so they still have some revenue coming in. If they follow the action plan there they turn off the salary, they get the lungs deferred. Okay? And do everything we talked about there. I left rent in. By the way, what I found was, if there's still seeing maybe doing 20% of what they were doing, uh, by taking those action items that extends their reserve, usually by a factor of like, 3 to 4. So if you have one month now, you got three. You had two months. Now you've got six. Okay, so it is a powerful multiplier. And if they just shut down, like all the way he was, like a factor, too. Okay, just a kind of a rule rule of thumb. So if you're sitting on 1 to 2 times and you're completely shut down, you got to four months.
Yeah, yeah, So it is. It's X. It's hard for me not to get excited about chaos that is forcing business owners to be business owners when what I mean by this I mean, it is really incredible how bloated we can get as a business. It is it credible how we can have money going out, that we just have no idea, really, where it's going, And so it's happening right here again. Some of this is pandemic related, but we could have an entire strategy on another webinar when everyone's back to work and function full capacity, where their strategies that they should be going through to maximize the amount of money that's coming out of there down practice, you know, now there's a really big attention. We call this even other, really paying attention to their even if there are a lot of dentists that just simply do not understand that. And maybe this is an opportunity. They kind of turn turned that that, you know, that dial up a bit inside their own business toe to start. Oh, I think I've become a better business owner. Increase business acumen. Especially around out of manage, expensive.
I couldn't agree more, Tim, And, you know, for for looking at that profit improvement. Okay, Whether we want to talk about plus enough even, uh um, I you know what are like our rule in our support for doctors in my role. That's profit, you know, make us much money to a campaign of practice and then keep as much from the government. So if the goal is profit improvement, you know the two sides of that equation you know, revenue on the net income, which is driven by extent you just mentioned, extends always a good time to sit and have a picture that's clean in my experience, if if if I'm helping to, like, diagnose a low profit margin, in other words, Hey, look, there's plenty of revenue kind, just that the composition is practice. You should be in a 40% margin, but you're 20% margin. Why is that, in my opinion, more often than not, it's not that the doctors overspending is there under collecting. And so I think if we're we have this downtime and you struggle in your a r like my rule of thumb for a are about one times production, it was like total balance and then the composition that a arms hopefully frontloaded towards current know if that's not what it looks like, what better time to really did? Dig into that and find out why improve improve that collection process? Because I think that is the impediment. More often than not, if it's a profit, margins crumple average.
Yeah, this is fantastic. I'm gonna say this and dentist speak. We're doing all of this work patients and insurance your p p 00 us. This money that's technically our a r. Obviously, what what you're saying is that should be about are they are totally are, should be about one times are typical average monthly production and that should be mainly in the current versus over 90. Um, this is a fantastic opportunity. Just get super clean inside your business. There's people that are listening to this that are going man This is pretty basic stuff. Yes. What? Let me into your practice. And I probably could find some pretty basic stuff that is not being done correctly. This is a chance for you dentist business owner to kind of erase all loyalties. You have to current systems to maybe current mindset and to just break it down and become the the excellent CEO business owner and one of those great places to start is expenses. Another great place to start is how does that they are cycle. Look, how does that process function? And are you healthy? According to Morgan here? So it's good. Man, this is good. Well, I feel like we could do ah 100 part series on this because you could go on for that for the sake of all every all the normal people out there that find this hard to gather and consume will will end it. Do you have any final thoughts here
now? I would just say, Hang in there, we'll get through this. Dentistry is not going anywhere. Uh, well, you know, we'll see that I have a timeline is sort of the big question on everybody's mind right now. And then Of course, this is this bill working its way through Congress because there's the way it's written there. Substantial relief. It's really gonna change, um, the arrangement with our police. And so we just have to wait and see right there for now, I would say is go through the action steps on the board there and take a good look at our business and take it from there.
It is beautiful. My final thoughts of people watching is listen. There's moments in our business life where there's a dip, and during that dip is when we grow. So sometimes it takes courage to be the leader in your business, to rearrange everything to really re engineer everything. But once you do it and you have a better handle on your business, exponential growth is possible. And this is an opportunity from a business cycle to take advantage of the downtime. So Morgan, my man, I appreciate this pleasure. Tim. Let's get back on this. Maybe in the next week when that bill passes and will dissect how this list might change.
Oh, well, you hope will be on it. We'll know for sure